Sports NFL Thread: 2023-2024 Season

Zest of Life

Banned deucer.
If the Chiefs win, where does this place Pat Mahomes in the GOAT debate? I think he’s a fantastic QB and one of the best the game has ever seen, but to compare him to Brady this early in his career is still kinda shocking. He’s definitely on track imo, but perhaps not ready to be in that convo yet…

A decisive win over the 49ers would certainly tempt me to consider placing him in that convo though. Looks like this year is eerily similar to 2020 too

Edit: And with that Super Bowl win, he's definitely in the discussion now
 
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bdt2002

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Some prices of information that might be worth looking into before the most boring Super Bow matchup we’ve had in a while. However, take these with a grain of salt as the betting numbers for the game could still change as the betting odds change as more people bet in favor of this team up until the game begins. The sportsbooks have to make their money somehow, right?

With that being said, the Kansas City Chiefs are:
  • 6-0 as road underdogs since 2019
  • 5-1 as underdogs in general since 2021 (they were favorites in every game they played in the 2021 season)
  • 14-3 in playoff games since 2018
  • 5-0 when playing at a neutral site since 2015 (remember, the 2020-21 Super Bowl loss was in Tampa Bay’s home stadium)
  • Have the league’s longest active win streak at five wins
 
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bdt2002

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I want to congratulate the Kansas City Chiefs for not only winning the Super Bowl, but also for the notable accomplishment of being the first team since the 2003-04 New England Patriots to win the Super Bowl in consecutive seasons. I personally did not have much preference for who I wanted to see win the game, but credit where credit is due, both teams played pretty well and there did not seem to be any significant penalty bias in favor of one side as far as I can tell. Here's the thing about teams like the Chiefs and the 49ers: no matter if you win or lose games like these, there is some merit to be found here. The way I like to see these things, sometimes losing to a really good team is actually better than winning, at least to me, because winning against another team also makes that other team you just won against look worse by comparison.

A recent example of this: I would still argue that the 2020 Chiefs (16-3 including playoffs) were a slightly better team than the 2022 Chiefs (17-3 including playoffs) despite the latter having a half-game advantage and a Super Bowl victory over their counterpart from two seasons earlier. The lack of the 17th regular season game for the 2020 roster is notable in this comparison, and you can also make the argument that the 2020 Chief's three losses were better than those of the 2022 Chiefs. Had the 2020 Chiefs won against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in that season's Super Bowl and finished 17-2 including playoffs, however, this dynamic completely changes, since there was no way to prove if that 17-2 season actually would have been an 18-2 final record by comparison, or if it would have been another 17-3 final record instead.
 

Zest of Life

Banned deucer.
As a Niners fan, I’d just like to say it’s so joever and we’re never winning a Super Bowl in my lifetime

Panicking and abandoning the run is always the dumbest thing I ever see Shanahan do. But he does it consistently. You have one of the greatest backs in history and a committee that dominates. Yet he would rather abandon it as soon as he’s 3 points down. Makes no sense. Swear the Niners are cursed

IMG_0480.jpeg
 
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bdt2002

Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs superfan
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i bring this up again since its a valid question after bro having 3 rings at 28
Coincidentally this is the first time I’ve heard 28, 3, and “rings” all in the same sentence since a certain other Super Bowl. In all seriousness, Brady has a 2-0 head-to-head playoffs record against Mahomes, and the Patriot’s back-to-back Super Bowl seasons were noticeably better than what Kansas City just did. Credit where credit is due for being the first team to repeat since then, but unless Mahomes can do at least one of the following, I won’t be convinced he’s the greatest of all time, and even then some of these seem far more reasonable than others:
  • Three-peat Super Bowl wins (this has never happened before)
  • Four straight AFC titles (hasn’t happened since the 90s Bills)
  • Four Super Bowl wins in five seasons (3 in 5 has been done multiple times, and 4 in 6 has only been done once)
  • Eight total Super Bowl wins (Brady has the record with 7)
  • Finish a perfect season (hasn’t happened since 1972, and Brady came just short in 2007- also remember the 17th game exists now too)
  • 12 or more straight division titles (the current record is 11 by, guess who)
 

Zest of Life

Banned deucer.
If the Chiefs win, where does this place Pat Mahomes in the GOAT debate? I think he’s a fantastic QB and one of the best the game has ever seen, but to compare him to Brady this early in his career is still kinda shocking. He’s definitely on track imo, but perhaps not ready to be in that convo yet…

A decisive win over the 49ers would certainly tempt me to consider placing him in that convo though. Looks like this year is eerily similar to 2020 too

Edit: And with that Super Bowl win, he's definitely in the discussion now
So now going back to my earlier post, where do you all rank Mahomes in the GOAT debate? He’s not anywhere near to Brady at this time, but I think he has great odds of surpassing him
 

awyp

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So now going back to my earlier post, where do you all rank Mahomes in the GOAT debate? He’s not anywhere near to Brady at this time, but I think he has great odds of surpassing him
personally I think its hard to rank career still guys until they're like 80-90% done, but I will say if he just stays healthy and plays for another 10 years (does not win another ring) hes sitting at #2 or behind Joe Montana
 
i bring this up again since its a valid question after bro having 3 rings at 28
Mahomes is the best ever talent wise. He will probably retire with at least 5, which puts him firmly in the Mahomes or Brady debate. Mahomes to me is undoubtedly “better” than Brady on general scouting, and on the stat sheet. But Brady was 2-0 vs. Mahomes and just had more of that “it” factor. I think Mahomes will need to get 9 rings for the consensus to be that he is a unanimous GOAT over Brady. (Though again, I personally think Mahomes is far more talented)
 
Mahomes is the best ever talent wise. He will probably retire with at least 5, which puts him firmly in the Mahomes or Brady debate. Mahomes to me is undoubtedly “better” than Brady on general scouting, and on the stat sheet. But Brady was 2-0 vs. Mahomes and just had more of that “it” factor. I think Mahomes will need to get 9 rings for the consensus to be that he is a unanimous GOAT over Brady. (Though again, I personally think Mahomes is far more talented)
i think that's why they stay mention Mahomes/Allen together. (and yes before Chiefs heads hit me, obv Patrick is out here harder off gold rn)
Tbf they both really are insane talents (and this isn't bias coming from a Jets/Bills Long Island fam lmao i just think both proved... this is kinda gunna be the new metric of "Holy hell, look at that.")
As for the Brady debate even coming from the a fam of 2 rival teams... Brady still got it --- can Mahomes topple him though? He's still young and tbf... does anyone see a team proved to be more clutch when needed rn, still? Mahomes def got a chance, my friend told me other day "Watch Josh in BUF be Peyton in INDY to Mahomes' Brady in NE" and I was half like "I'll take one" but at same time like "I dont appreciate the way you told me that." lol.
the metric of QBs is going up, you got mahomes/allen/burrows/jackson/herbert/lawrence/etc etc... years ago people was like "they can't pass from the pocket" now it's "can they throw on the move AND run the game from the pocket (having run ability is a benefit)?"
 
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dex

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where does pat mahomes rank in terms of greatest qbs of all time
This depends on how you view experience and longevity. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are often brought up as the greatest ever not only because they were statistically excellent but also because they were excellent over long stretches of time. The classic counter example is Terrell Davis, who had 3-4 transcendent seasons and may have been one of the most physically gifted running backs ever, but no one would ever say Davis is a top 5 back OAT. Longevity is even more important for QBs, who are expected to play deep into their 30s. That being said, Patrick Mahomes has played at such a high level each and every season that he breaks this preference for longevity that HoF voters and pundits have. I would say that if Mahomes retired right now, he would be a first-ballot HoFer. He compares favorably to Roger Staubach at this point in his career, except Staubach's career was shorter because he started playing late while Mahomes's is shorter because it just isn't done yet. For ranking Mahomes, I think I'd have to rank all the QBs and see where he ends up:
  1. Tom Brady (seeing Tom in ads now is weird)
  2. Peyton Manning (1 if not for neck)
  3. Joe Montana (by far the nicest human on this list)
  4. Aaron Rodgers (by far the weirdest human on this list)
  5. Brett Favre (the wrangler)
  6. Johnny Unitas (a personal fav)
  7. Dan Marino (lombardi be damned)
  8. Drew Brees (it ain't easy)
  9. Steve Young (get mad at me, Young was unlike any other in a West Coast offense)
  10. John Elway (perennially overrated, still an amazing QB)
  11. Bart Starr (packers moment)
  12. Fran Tarkenton (The stats were... ass. The highlights were... awesome)
  13. Ben Roethlisberger (Beloved woman respecter)
  14. Patrick Mahomes (a literal child)
So there it is, I'd say Mahomes is currently the 14th best to ever do it. I think the Staubach comparison is useful right now, though you'll notice that Mahomes has already overtaken him in my eyes. Every year, Mahomes overtakes a couple more QBs, though I do think it is still a herculean task to breach the top 4 (i.e. the 4 guys who have a claim for being the GOAT). If Mahomes continues on his current trajectory, I imagine it will take him about 4 more years of consistent production to enter that top 4 top 3 conversation. Alternatively, another championship would probably lock him into the conversation; two more and I think he secures the GOAT title in record time.

By the way, while I'm here, I firmly believe that 2019 Lamar Jackson is the best QB season of all time. Thoughts?
 
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awyp

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OJ Simpson passed away, outside of his media personality / culture opinions how good of a player was he?
 

boomp

Never Give Up
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OJ was a great running back man. winning 4 rushing titles and running a total of 11k rushing yards during his career was incredible.
 

CaptainDaimyo

Love is a rebellious bird that none can tame...
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We need to go ahead and post for 2024-2025 with the draft coming up. I can make the thread if that’s fine.
1713247182735.png

Decided to make a mock draft for my beloved seahawks, drafted mostly defensive position players since we need coverage there esp since bobby wagner left (at least we got a lot of good defensive players during fa)

Traded back with the eagles in exchange for a r2 pick, funny enough the dolphins with the 22nd pick got troy fautanu who is likely to be drafted by us

(I was actually given the chance to pick mr irrelevant for the season after i traded back with the jets during the fourth round so yay)
 

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